does anybody on here work in #engineering #operations ? infrastructure etc? do you have a product manager or similar? can i ask you questions?

* if someone razzes me about hashtags i will screech

@alana I’m devops, and I’ve worked extensively with both traditional PMO and scrum product ownership. Ask away! I’ll try my best to answer usefully.

@alexis oh awesome!! i'm trying for a job that involves being the PM for a decently-mature infrastructure "portfolio" that has never had a PM/PO (other eng teams at the company do.) i'm trying to envision potential differences between managing ops product portfolios, vs devops or dev.. and just generally think through any gotchas. i'm thinking infra needs to move more slowly and methodically than i might be used to? but.. what else

@alana @alexis i think pm's can really help ensure that devs and ops are working together on what's actually expected from a deployment, since it's often the case that each of these groups doesn't really "get" what the other one needs or would benefit from. There's a huge human problem to solve in between this that isn't really covered by just "add devops" since it literally requires more hours of someone doing that human bridge work

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@June @alana @alexis i've had a bunch of (team) managers (usually) that actively worked against dev getting too close to us ops.

that, despite the proof of extraordinarily success stories when we did work together

@hirojin @June @alexis i think this is so old school and weird. when i've seen managers keeping teams from communicating, it was 100% just to keep everyone reliant on them for information. it's like they think PMs are obsolete if we aren't controlling the information flow between ppl who can already easily talk to each other 😅 which is such a... dare i say worthless?... way to spend one's days

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