So hi! Could folks who are making jokes about Mark Zuckerberg please be aware that comparing him to a robot can be hurtful because
a) if he is autistic you are repeating the same tired old jokes about autistic people having no emotions just because you can't read our facial expressions, and
b) if he is not autistic then you are still doing that, and reminding autistic people of jokes people make about how we're evil/heartless - and at the same time you're comparing us to Mark Zuckerberg. Rude.
Like, okay, Data's face pasted over Zuck's face, hilarious - except that Data is a good person and a relatable character for a lot of good people out there. You're literally making Zuck look *better* by comparing him to Data? If you want to be mean to him you have to paste on the face of someone *bad*, no? Data is awesome.
And like, this one, right.
I have known so many people who stop having facial expressions when they just can't any more. To me this guy doesn't look emotionless, he looks FULL of emotion.
You're just bad at reading facial expressions, I guess. You know, that thing you say we autistic people are bad at...
@cassolotl I don't know if there is a word for it, but to me he looks like a deer in the light of the car. Frozen out of shock.
The expression he has is far from "emotion chip removed"
@julloyart @cassolotl yeah he looks scared as hell, that's pretty plain to see.
@julloyart @cassolotl A combination of social phobia (not really anxiety, although they're used interchangeably) and inability to be spontaneously disarming during negotiations. I have the latter when I haven't had much sleep even though my job depends on it
It's unlikely Zuckerberg had much sleep lately either
@cassolotl ...why don’t pppl just...like say he’s a bad person or make fun of the shitty things he’s done rather than things about his appearance?
XP
@Miffy Indeed! It reminds me of when people try to discredit The Orange One by saying he's mentally ill, when that is not relevant AND it's really insulting to mentally ill people??
@cassolotl I mean, some MH stuff can mean that being a president might not be a good idea true.
But it doesn’t make you a raging bigot or incompetent, it’s possible to do both those things while NT.
@Miffy Exactly!
@cassolotl facial expressions and emotional (at least to me) often depend on changes in face shape, and also the context in which the facial expression is occurring. a still shot is a moment lifted out of time and has no context.
@archangelic Very true, good point!
@cassolotl I posted this on Twitter earlier; Grandin is going on the film The Social Network in dx-ing MZ. I haven't observed him enough. You think him autistic? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwnlWX4iyj4
@marginalie Isn't The Social Network a movie where characters are played by actors? As far as I know Temple Grandin isn't qualified to diagnose autism, and they refer to Aspergers as "mild autism" in this video (which is extremely not accurate).
@cassolotl She referred to the book and film, so it is based upon him. If she were a professional she would not have made the statement. I was interested in your intuition about him as I thought you were inferring MZ may be autistic.
@marginalie Well I mean until someone says "I'm autistic" *anyone* may be autistic. I am definitely not qualified to judge! If he's having typically autistic-targeting jokes and mockery thrown at him I'm thinking that I/we probably shouldn't rule it out, but I've never really seen him interacting with people outside of that testimony interview thing the other day, and Grandin is talking about a fictional character so that definitely doesn't count! :P
@cassolotl It's certainly illegitimate in that sense but it struck me that, in being more explicit than is the case with all of the tacit / implicit discussions of him as exhibiting autistic traits - including those that refer to his facial expression - it is a starting point for conversation on that theme. The fictionalised version of his life also plays over mainstream ideas of traits of autism being disproportionally present in the tech space and this affects how these issues are perceived.
@marginalie I don't know, I feel like I can't really speculate on his autisticness. I don't know him at all, I've never spoken to him, I know nothing about him.
@cassolotl Of course. I agree that the memes relating to robots / androids etc. are unhelpful and hurtful. I also don't know and have no information on this. Grandin's analysis is misplaced, I think, but I suspect it is simply an expression of what others are thinking and not saying, and such taboos if not tackled head on can lead to discrimination that can impact us in the real world.
@cassolotl I avoided all the data stuff becous...yes he looks awakrd (to me) but also like...bring him up on not shitty stuff. I did see a tweet comparing him to lore (in terms.of released anger ) which seemed.fairer.
@cassolotl This is a good point
@sa2tms Heh, thanks. :)
@cassolotl yeah, don't drag robots down to his level either! he hurts the perception of robots enough as it is, his company using AI for evil and all that. he is what he is: a profoundly unethical human being. there are plenty of his actions to criticise without making superficial comparisons.
@cassolotl Data is awesome, so why is comparing Zuckerburg's face to his so offensive?
I'm on the spectrum, and I've found the "Zuckerburg is a robot" meme absolutely hilarious.
My hope, of course, is that Mark himself wouldn't be too offended by it, or would see the humor in it himself, but if not, hopefully he can soothe his upset with his billions of dollars.
@ocdtrekkie It's kind of in the same vein as trying to delegitimise Donald Trump by saying he's mentally ill. It's like, comparing bad people to a non-bad marginalised group is insulting to the people in the marginalised group. People are like "haha, Zuck is awful because he is like a robot" when actually there are a lot of reasons why he is awful, and saying he's like a robot and that's why he's awful is insulting to the good people who are like robots (or who are said to be like robots).
@cassolotl maybe it has nothing to do with making him look good/bad? Not all jokes are agendas, sometimes it’s funny how someone’s mannerisms look like another’s
@cassolotl lore exists and they are comparing him to data???
also yeah making fun of how people express complex emotions is shitty and normalizes societal expectations that hurt people on the spectrum every damn day of their lives
@cassolotl @xeb what if it's lore tho
@cassolotl also it's disrespectful towards us robots